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Seer Stone v. Urim & Thummim: Book of Mormon Translation on Trial (Book)

(9 customer reviews)

Original price was: $28.00.Current price is: $20.00.

Seer Stone v. Urim and Thummim places the Book of Mormon translation on trial, presenting the latest research in one of the most comprehensive treatments of the translation process to date providing encouragement for Latter-day Saints who fear they have been “betrayed” by the translation history taught by the Church for over 190 years. 

Did Joseph Smith study and master the Nephite language? Did the Prophet tutor some of the early Brethren in ancient Nephite characters?

Did Joseph Smith translate the Book of Mormon using a dark seer stone in a hat?

Why are progressive historians creating a new history using sources from a man who vowed to wash his hands in the blood of Joseph Smith, while boasting that he had deceived the Prophet and his God?

Has The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints covered up its history for nearly 200 years?

Length: 240 pages

Release date: April 2019

Availability: In stock

Availability: In stock

  • Did Joseph Smith study and master the Nephite language? Did the Prophet tutor some of the early Brethren in ancient Nephite characters?
  • Did Joseph Smith translate the Book of Mormon using a dark seer stone in a hat?
  • Why are progressive historians creating a new history using sources from a man who vowed to wash his hands in the blood of Joseph Smith, while boasting that he had deceived the Prophet and his God?
  • Has The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints covered up its history for nearly 200 years?
  • Was Joseph Smith a treasure digger? During his life, did the Prophet artfully suppress his alleged treasure digging past?
  • Did Joseph Smith cover up his use of a seer stone during the translation, feigning use of the Urim and Thummim?
  • What new information has The Joseph Smith Papers Project uncovered that challenges our understanding of the translation process?
  • Is David Whitmer a credible witness of the Book of Mormon translation? Did you know that David Whitmer consulted a witch and occultic seer stones, denounced Joseph Smith as a false prophet and aided the mob in the persecution of the Missouri Saints?
  • Was Joseph Smith involved in sorcery, astrology and ritual magic?

Seer Stone v. Urim and Thummim makes a great case for simply going ‘back to the basics’! That is, accepting the translation of the Book of Mormon as Joseph said it was done, as opposed to how others claim it was done. It is well researched and very enlightening and a must read for those who are willing to accept the words of Joseph and other prophets at face value.” —Kay M Godfrey, Author, Joseph Smith Epoch Historian

“As you read this book, it will validate your knowledge that the Book of Mormon is a real history of a real people. The Stoddards have once again born witness that Joseph Smith was and is truly our Prophet, Seer, and Revelator. You will love this book.” —Rian Nelson, Author and speaker, FIRM Foundation

“The Stoddards present a thorough and careful analysis of  the numerous errors and sometimes outright falsehoods that have crept into many of the translation  narratives, even some by respected scholars, who relied on changing accounts from both fallible acquaintances and also outright enemies.” —Leslie Pearson Rees, Author, “Ye Have Been Hid: Finding the Lost Tribes of Israel”

9 reviews for Seer Stone v. Urim & Thummim: Book of Mormon Translation on Trial (Book)

  1. bradjuliesmith

    This book is wonderful! I give this all the stars I can! I believe with all my heart every home should have a copy of this book to combat the lies that are being taught to our children, and our grandchildren. This book did such a wonderful job showing how BOGUS this “new narrative” is about the hat and seer stone, where the lies began, and how it is coming forth.
    President Packer said it best when he, himself, took on the scholars/historians when he said “ That historian or scholar who delights in pointing out the weakness and frailties of present or past leaders destroys faith. A destroyer of faith—particularly one within the Church, and more particularly one who is employed specifically to build faith—places himself in great spiritual jeopardy. He is serving the wrong master, and unless he repents, he will not be among the faithful in the eternities.

    One who chooses to follow the tenets of his profession, regardless of how they may injure the Church or destroy the faith of those not ready for “advanced history,” is himself in spiritual jeopardy. If that one is a member of the Church, he has broken his covenants and will be accountable. After all of the tomorrows of mortality have been finished, he will not stand where he might have stood.”

    I am so grateful to the Joseph Smith Foundation for writing this book with a desire to help those who are losing their testimony. This book is written so plainly for our children to have, and it is chalked full of sources to go to. Not, like other books that just quote anti-Mormon literature, old court records, or apostates, or even worse…. themselves! When you begin a serious read, there within arises a great desire to go and help others learn the truth and to defend Joseph’s name. The prophet Joseph is more than we know, he is not equal to us, and should not be taken down from the pedestal God put him on. These attacks on Joseph will stop when each family reads this book and says it is enough and begins to live his teachings with exactness!

  2. natster13

    This book contains great resources and facts not found in any other compilation.
    Some of this information is priceless!
    I recommend it to anyone who would like to know more from and about a real latter-day prophet, the Urim and Thummin and the translation process.

  3. Rooster23 (verified owner)

    I ordered this book last week and have already re-read the book three times. I have studied church history my entire life, and this book nails it right on the head!! The authors have done their homework. The Urim & Thummim is a celestial instrument, which is available to the Prophets. One day we will all know much more about this important tool the Lord has made available to his Prophets.

    As I have spoken with members who have had questions over the years, literally every answer I have given is found within the pages of this book!! Only three people were true faithful witnesses to the translation process…. 1. The Lord 2. Joseph Smith Jr. 3. Oliver Cowdery. All three of these faithful witnesses state the translation was accomplished through the Urim and Thummim.

    I cannot begin to count how many times I have had the Doctor Philastus Hurlbut conversation with members of the church. It’s about time this apostate is brought out into the open like he should be.

    Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for publishing this book. I pray this book will help be a foundation builder for members of the church who may be struggling. Be patient. The Savior will answer all our questions, and in the near future we will all see Brother Joseph again!

  4. t3allenfamily

    I have just finished this book and loved it! This book shows you the truth and puts it on trial alongside the falsehoods. The faithful Latter-day Saint will know in their heart what is true. I am so thankful for The Joseph Smith Foundation and the Stoddard’s for always standing with Truth, with Christ and His restored Gospel and with Joseph Smith. My testimony has truly grown these past 10+ years learning at the feet of these faithful members. If you have had your questions and doubts, please read this book. I promise it will help. =)

  5. cajun_kepoo

    I can’t emphasize enough the importance that every member, and even former members, of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints MUST read this book. If you are going to read a book on any kind of history, you need to know where their sources come from. Just because someone is a historian doesn’t mean they are quoting truth in their book. The sources of the quotes in this book come directly from Joseph Smith himself and Jesus Christ, not from someone quoting someone who hated Joseph Smith. Satan wants to destroy the foundations of everything, our Country, the restored Church of Jesus Christ, your own family, and more. This book will help you realize this and then want to work hard to do whatever you can to come to know the Truth.

  6. lnpoulsen

    This is a wonderful book. I couldn’t put it down. I’ve been studying and praying to understand how the latest video from the church depicting use of a stone in a hat could be presented since it is not fully understood the role of the Seer Stone in the translation process. I’ve had some strong feelings about the possibility of the following scenario which I feel good about and have had my concerns pacified. Book of Mormon Translation Hypothesis

    Joseph’s needs to gain the ability to translate might have been met as follows:

    He might have needed a sample of an English translation of Reformed Egyptian to learn to associate Egyptian characters with English words or phrases.
    One possible way to get that sample might be to use a seer stone* (*When Joseph felt a need to have a perfect English translation to help him learn the meaning of the characters he may have been asked, as was the brother of Jared, to propose a solution and he suggested the use of his Seer Stone. (This of course is pure speculation.) to acquire an exact English version to compare with the Reformed Egyptian characters to learn their meaning. This would have been recorded by his scribes so he would have it an English learning tool available in written form. This would have been one of the primary reasons for the Book of Lehi to be translated first and then lost serving as a learning instrument for Joseph.
    Joseph would use these translations for the abridged version of the Book of Lehi as well as to learn to translate. The Urim & Thummim would be used as well to: envision (see a vision of) the context surrounding the scripture passages; learn about principles of the gospel; receive the steps required for the restoration; receive the revelations recorded in the Doctrine & Covenants; and to see what would happen in the near future (i.e. seeing David Whitmer, others involved in the restoration, and how to secure the plates.)
    Who would have observed this translation? Emma Smith and Martin Harris since they were involved as scribes for the 116 pages.
    Therefore, the 116 pages would have served as a practical exercise to learn Reformed Egyptian for the abridgement created by Mormon.
    Another use of an English translation provided by the Seer Stone* would be to compare it’s results with Joseph’s independent translation to validate and correct his work and learn from his mistakes. Joseph’s final draft would be presented to Heavenly Father for approval which would be validated by a burning in the bosom. This process aligns with the process described to Oliver Cowdery in D&C 9.
    A second learning process would be required for the Small Plates of Nephi (which had not been abridged by Mormon) because they would be written in the Reformed Egyptian that existed in the time of Nephi. It would differ from that used by Mormon a thousand years later. Following the same process for learning as he had used before he would use the seer stone to get a sample of properly translated characters from Nephi’s earlier dialect as well as to correct his translation and learn from his mistakes. A scribe would have recorded the correct translation so he could use it to learn and compare with his own translation. This scribe would be David Whitmer. David would describe the translation process using the Seer Stone rather than the Urim and Thummim.
    Joseph would still use the Urim and Thummim for context and revelations as before when Oliver Cowdery was acting as scribe without the need for the Seer Stone which he had used only while learning to translate.

    Joseph would be referred to by the Lord as having the gift of translation among his other spiritual gifts. This would serve him well when he set out to translate the Book of Abraham. The Egyptian dialect of the Book of Abraham wouldn’t necessarily be the same as reformed Egyptian but by this time Joseph might not have needed the Seer Stone to learn the dialect. None-the-less there would have been a learning curve associated with that book as well, but his gift of translation of Reformed Egyptian and his experience listening to the Spirit may have been all he needed.

    These translation experiences would also serve him well when retranslating portions of the Bible. His gift is especially evident in the Bible translations recorded in the Pearl of Great Price (“Joseph Smith – Matthew” and The Book of Moses). These translations likely included contextual visions as well. Remember that Joseph had also acquired a tutor of the Hebrew language to introduce him to that language.

    Given the above hypothesis Emma, Martin and David would have been exposed to Joseph’s use of the Seer Stone while learning the language and dialects (their scribal work would have been used without changes in those final products). After this, Joseph would use the Urim & Thummim exclusively since Joseph had already learned the language. This means Joseph got to where he could truly translate and he simply used the Seer Stone when he needed it to learn the language.

    The reasons why the Lord never expected Joseph to share the details of this process is because the Seer Stone was mainly used to develop his translation capabilities. The vast majority of the Book of Mormon came through the contextual revelations from the Urim & Thummim together with Joseph’s acquired gift of Translation that he received from God after all he could do to acquire the skill. Isn’t this how God works – He has us do all we can do and if we are worthy he makes up the difference?

    *When Joseph felt a need to have a perfect English translation to help him learn the meaning of the characters he may have been asked, as was the brother of Jared, to propose a solution and he suggested the use of his Seer Stone. (This of course is pure speculation.)
    Another hypothesis: Joseph may have received visits from key persons to help him to better understand the context and content of what he was translating in the Book of Mormon, The Bible, and The Book of Abraham. Key individuals such as Nephi, Mosiah, Alma, 3 Nephites, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Paul the apostle may have helped him in his translation process for all of the different books by helping him understand the context of what they had written. His visits by members of the Godhead, John the Baptist, Peter, James and John, Moroni, Elias, Elijah, and Moses came with special missions related to the restoration.

    The additional help Joseph received from the pure English translation tutoring via the seer stone would also have improved his writing, spelling and communication skills that he would need in his later assignments.

    Another thought: The Reformed Egyptian used by Nephi in his small plates would likely be closer to the Egyptian found in the Book of Abraham scroll than that found in Mormon’s abridgement because Mormon’s abridgement utilized language that had evolved somewhat over the thousand year interval from the Egyptian language Nephi used.

    Joseph would undoubtedly have received visits from Jaredites to help him understand context related to the Book of Ether i.e. Mahonri Moriancumr. It is also unthinkable that with all of the information Joseph received from these visitors from Book of Mormon history that he wouldn’t know where the core of Nephite and Jaredite history took place. It would have been unwise to reveal too much about the geography which would send people off in search of geographical details for proof for and against the Book of Mormon. However this doesn’t mean that some information regarding the geography wouldn’t be necessary since the covenant of God on the land about worshipping God or be destroyed when fully ripe would be unknown by those who need to keep that covenant or they couldn’t be held accountable. The land was undoubtedly home to a people led by God seeking religious freedom from an apostate Christendom. This eliminates an area populated by those who were still held in check by apostate Christendom such as Mesoamerica and South America.

    Further evidence that Joseph understood the geography includes the evidences he was allowed to reveal which included:

    1. The location of the Hill Cumorah where the final battles took place and the repository of plates was located.
    2. Where the plains of the Nephites are.
    3. Who the principle descendants of the Lamanites were.
    4. Where the city Zarahemla was located.
    5. Additional knowledge was given to him about Zelph and Onondagas
    6. Where the Eastern Sea and the Rocky mountains were that were part of Book of Mormon history.
    7. The location of Manti

  7. Jeff Downs

    Fantastic! Well worth the price to have all of this information in one place. With everything laid out you can make up your own mind as to which narrative you should believe. Although, to be honest, it is a no-brainer! Instruments specially prepared by God for that very purpose, or a rock? Hmmmmmm

  8. James Hasler

    Again this is outstanding! The 3rd book after Faith Crisis Vol 2. The evidence and complete background for the Urim and Thummim vs. Seer Stone translation of the Book of Mormon is presented in this work with the utmost clarity. Bravo to the authors for extensive research and fact finding! Like I mentioned in my other reviews, you will soon find the books to be filled with scholarship; everything is sourced on each page with references. I was never aware of this great effort put forth by the adversary to deceive the historicity and authenticity of the translation process of the Book of Mormon. Be prepared to see all the facts, evidence, doctrine, and authenticity that make it easy to understand and see the big picture of what’s going on.

  9. Nate Richardson

    This is a most exciting book for taking a closer look at how the scriptures and prophets said the Book of Mormon was translated. It suggests that it is only a new idea that the dark seer stone was used for translating the book. It maintains what the church has taught for centuries, that the translation was done by the Urim & Thummim handed down for generations for that purpose. The book also defends the character against slanderers of Joseph Smith. Sadly, progressive church historians today think it wise to take the testimonies of traitors and esteem those as highly as trusted sources. Scholars today are relied upon heavily in the church for telling us our history, so it is only fair that we hear from more than just a handful of progressive scholars to get this information. This book helps open some healthy debate, which is essential to good academics. Of course, learning about spiritual events cannot ever simply be done by an appeal to history. We must place in highest esteem the revealed word of the Lord on the subject as found in the standard works of scripture, and this volume encourages just that. Readers will be pleased to learn that more has been revealed on this subject than some report there to be. As for references in the text, I counted 584. This is a work for scholars to recon with and take seriously. The Stoddard’s are not afraid to mingle scholarship with faith as they present what faithful historians like Joseph Fielding Smith would be proud of, accurately representing both history and the spirit of the restoration of the gospel. I am a member of the Church and am happy to see other members taking a stand. Prophets have long taught: If something doesn’t square with the scriptures, it is to be rejected. This work demonstrates a translation method which indeed squares with the standard works of scripture.

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